Horizontal multicolored bands in scans (RPS 10M)

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decaf
Beiträge: 5
Registriert: Sonntag 26. Juli 2020, 16:41

Horizontal multicolored bands in scans (RPS 10M)

Beitrag von decaf »

I recently bought a Reflecta RPS 10M. I have been getting very strong horizontal bands/lines in the dark areas of the scanned positives.
This is what it looks like (kodachrome): https://pasteboard.co/Jhtx4EI.png.

This example is also adjusted to make it brighter, which made the banding stronger, but the issue is still very much visible without any adjustments. I also tried scanning negatives, the issue is the same but reversed (lines in bright areas, no color in the lines so less noticeable but still problematic). I tried using different software, Silverfast Ai Studio and Cyberview X, and the issue is the same, which led me to believe it was a hardware issue.

I contacted Reflecta, and they suggested I get a replacement. But the replacement scanner has the exact same issue.

Anyone know what the problem could be? Has anyone else had a similar issue with the RPS 10M or other Reflecta scanners? Surely these bands aren't normal?
Joe
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Registriert: Montag 4. Februar 2008, 06:31
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Re: Horizontal multicolored bands in scans (RPS 10M)

Beitrag von Joe »

Some suggestions:

- which Scan-Software did you use - try another (the free trial of Vuescan or Silverfast) - same Problems?
- if possible use another PC/Laptop - same Problems?

- do you have other positives then kodachrome. If yes try if they have the same Problems.

- always: use the original USB Cable, use a USB port on the backside of the PC. No USB Hub, Switch, or anything else.

- the PC, scanner and cable should not be in direct sun light or in the near of a heat source
decaf
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Registriert: Sonntag 26. Juli 2020, 16:41

Re: Horizontal multicolored bands in scans (RPS 10M)

Beitrag von decaf »

Joe hat geschrieben: Sonntag 26. Juli 2020, 18:40 Some suggestions:

- which Scan-Software did you use - try another (the free trial of Vuescan or Silverfast) - same Problems?
- if possible use another PC/Laptop - same Problems?

- do you have other positives then kodachrome. If yes try if they have the same Problems.

- always: use the original USB Cable, use a USB port on the backside of the PC. No USB Hub, Switch, or anything else.

- the PC, scanner and cable should not be in direct sun light or in the near of a heat source
Hi Joe, thanks for your help!

- I tried using Silverfast and Cyberview X (the software shipped with the scanner).

- I don't have other positives than kodachrome, but the issue is the same with negatives (but inverted, with lines in the bright area). So you can get an idea of what scans of negatives look like, here is a close crop of one of the scans of a negative: https://pasteboard.co/JjsQPHu.png

- Used the original USB cable. I only have laptops (so usb in is on the side, haha). I tried with a laptop that had "normal" USB ports, and my own which has USB type C ports and an adapter. The issue is the same on both laptops.

- Nothing was near a heat source or in direct sunlight so that can't be the issue.

I would have said all this points defective scanner, but this is the second brand new RPS 10M that has this exact issue (got a replacement). Perhaps a bad batch that the store I bought it at ordered?
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Jossie
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Re: Horizontal multicolored bands in scans (RPS 10M)

Beitrag von Jossie »

What was the scanning direction? I would assume it was top to bottom or the other way around (CCD parallel to the long side of the slide)?

Is the pattern always the same (location, color gradient)?

Could you please make a linear scan available ("raw" format, 64bit HDRi in SilverFast at full nominal resolution, it will be a big file but that does not matter) of a completely dark image? It is very strange that I do not see a trace of the problem in the upper part of the image.

Hermann-Josef
DigitDia6000 (CyberView, SilverFast Archive Suite 8) / CanoScan9950F (ScanGear, VueScan Pro), Eizo CS240, xrite i1studio, Win10 (64bit), AMD (3.6GHz), Speicher 16GB
decaf
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Registriert: Sonntag 26. Juli 2020, 16:41

Re: Horizontal multicolored bands in scans (RPS 10M)

Beitrag von decaf »

Jossie hat geschrieben: Sonntag 26. Juli 2020, 19:28 What was the scanning direction? I would assume it was top to bottom or the other way around (CCD parallel to the long side of the slide)?

Is the pattern always the same (location, color gradient)?

Could you please make a linear scan available ("raw" format, 64bit HDRi in SilverFast at full nominal resolution, it will be a big file but that does not matter) of a completely dark image? It is very strange that I do not see a trace of the problem in the upper part of the image.

Hermann-Josef
Hi Hermann-Josef,

Yes, the scanning direction is top to bottom, CCD parallel to the long side of the slide.
The pattern is always the same, color gradient and all.

I don't have a completely dark positive (or negative) on hand. However, if you look closely at the top of the image, you should be able to see that there is in fact a trace of the bands. You can see it best at the top right of the image, it is just less noticeable because that part of the image is brighter. It simply struggles with the dark areas of positives and the light areas of negatives (after inversion, which means the dark areas of the film).
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Jossie
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Re: Horizontal multicolored bands in scans (RPS 10M)

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decaf hat geschrieben: Sonntag 26. Juli 2020, 20:52 Yes, the scanning direction is top to bottom, CCD parallel to the long side of the slide.
So the CCD-signal is modulated along the read-out direction, which is very strange. If I split the channels I see, that the defect is present in all channels.In the sky at upper right it is most noticeable in R, weakest in B.

I have no real clue but it looks like an interference issue to me, if you say that the second scanner does exhibit the same pattern. Do you have the chance to test your scanner at a completely different machine and location?

Hermann-Josef
DigitDia6000 (CyberView, SilverFast Archive Suite 8) / CanoScan9950F (ScanGear, VueScan Pro), Eizo CS240, xrite i1studio, Win10 (64bit), AMD (3.6GHz), Speicher 16GB
decaf
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Registriert: Sonntag 26. Juli 2020, 16:41

Re: Horizontal multicolored bands in scans (RPS 10M)

Beitrag von decaf »

Jossie hat geschrieben: Sonntag 26. Juli 2020, 21:22
decaf hat geschrieben: Sonntag 26. Juli 2020, 20:52 Yes, the scanning direction is top to bottom, CCD parallel to the long side of the slide.
So the CCD-signal is modulated along the read-out direction, which is very strange. If I split the channels I see, that the defect is present in all channels.In the sky at upper right it is most noticeable in R, weakest in B.

I have no real clue but it looks like an interference issue to me, if you say that the second scanner does exhibit the same pattern. Do you have the chance to test your scanner at a completely different machine and location?

Hermann-Josef
If it is any help to you, I just did a scan with IR and the IR channel seems to be completely free of the lines/bands.
I can probably test it at a different location, but how different of a location are we talking? Different house? Different neighborhood? Different town?
I already tried it in a different room (basement) and it didn't help at all. Trying it on a different laptop didn't help.
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Jossie
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Re: Horizontal multicolored bands in scans (RPS 10M)

Beitrag von Jossie »

decaf hat geschrieben: Sonntag 26. Juli 2020, 21:31 but how different of a location are we talking?
I think you did all that is possible. I have no further idea than asking reflecta for further advice. They cannot ignore your findings...

The IR-channel, at least in my scanner, is measured with the G-channel CCD, so this should not make a difference, but is an interesting observation.

Hermann-Josef
DigitDia6000 (CyberView, SilverFast Archive Suite 8) / CanoScan9950F (ScanGear, VueScan Pro), Eizo CS240, xrite i1studio, Win10 (64bit), AMD (3.6GHz), Speicher 16GB
Joe
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Re: Horizontal multicolored bands in scans (RPS 10M)

Beitrag von Joe »

I suggest to contact reflecta again. It looks like a hardware problem with the scanner.
decaf
Beiträge: 5
Registriert: Sonntag 26. Juli 2020, 16:41

Re: Horizontal multicolored bands in scans (RPS 10M)

Beitrag von decaf »

Joe hat geschrieben: Montag 27. Juli 2020, 06:56 I suggest to contact reflecta again. It looks like a hardware problem with the scanner.
Would it be possible that different scanners have the exact same problem ? It seems unlikely... But I guess it doesn't hurt to try.
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Jossie
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Re: Horizontal multicolored bands in scans (RPS 10M)

Beitrag von Jossie »

decaf hat geschrieben: Montag 27. Juli 2020, 11:21 Would it be possible that different scanners have the exact same problem ?
This scanner is used by several other participants in this forum, too, and none of them reported such a problem up to now. This sort of effect is also not shown in the service manual of my scanner, which displays various effects of scanner malfunctions and their origin.
decaf hat geschrieben: Montag 27. Juli 2020, 11:21 But I guess it doesn't hurt to try.
Certainly not! Sometimes one has to insist and repeatedly ask for help.

Hermann-Josef
DigitDia6000 (CyberView, SilverFast Archive Suite 8) / CanoScan9950F (ScanGear, VueScan Pro), Eizo CS240, xrite i1studio, Win10 (64bit), AMD (3.6GHz), Speicher 16GB
Joe
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Re: Horizontal multicolored bands in scans (RPS 10M)

Beitrag von Joe »

Years ago my DigitDia 5000 was replaced, because a series of them hat problems with capacitors.

That Problem was also only with a charge of the Scanners.
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