Reflecta RPS 10M - Issue ("Staircase Effect"?)

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NicolasLux
Beiträge: 4
Registriert: Dienstag 17. März 2020, 12:47

Reflecta RPS 10M - Issue ("Staircase Effect"?)

Beitrag von NicolasLux »

Hi everyone!

My name is Nicolas, Im 31 yo and I live in Luxembourg.
I am doing photograpy since more than 3 years and started recently film photography (35mm).

I recently bought from ScanDig a Reflecta RPS 10M as my first ever scanner.
I am really surprised of the quantity of information and details this scanner can extract from a 35mm film! :D

However, I encountered some issue with some pictures, especially in the bright areas.
I was not able to find many information on internet about it. To what I understand, it might be called the "staircase effect". (please see the attached pictures).

Could you please help me regarding this issue? Is it a software issue or does it mean my scanner might be deffective?

Please find below some additional information about my settings, gear and process:
1. I have a PC with Windows 10
2. I used Silverfast SE 8.8 (bought on ScanDig)
3. I scanned the pictures in 5000 dpi and then applied basic adjustments (contrast; black; whites, curves;...) on Lightroom
4. I noted that my development on Lightroom enhance the issue, which makes sens as I tend to increase contrast
5. I tried to scan the image with Cyberview and have not noted any issue. Howerver and taking into account the few details and information obtained with this software compared to Silverfast, I do not want to directly conclude this is a sotware issue. I am not convinced the Cyberview test is really relevant based on the poor quality of the final scan and there I believe that the software might just not be good enough to catch the level of details required to observe this "staircase effect".

Thank you in advance for you help and all apologises if I did not post in the proper section!
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Jossie
Beiträge: 1388
Registriert: Sonntag 10. Februar 2013, 19:40
Wohnort: im Kraichgau

Re: Reflecta RPS 10M - Issue ("Staircase Effect"?)

Beitrag von Jossie »

Hello Nicolas and welcome,

I guess you are talking about the regular mesh-like pattern in bright areas.

I have never seen such an effect before and I have no ready explanation. However, my first thought was that it may be an electronic issue. It is hard to imagine an optical effect causing this.

I would contact reflecta (service@reflecta.de) and send them these examples. However, you might be better off, if you could demonstrate the effect also with CyberView, if it really is a hardware issue. Had the bright areas been properly exposed with CyberView or were they perhaps overexposed thus hiding this effect? Try to reduce the exposure time (see page 25 in the manual) and re-scan the very same images you showed here.

Hermann-Josef
DigitDia6000 (CyberView, SilverFast Archive Suite 8) / CanoScan9950F (ScanGear, VueScan Pro), Eizo CS240, Spider4Elite unter Win10 (64bit), i7 (3.5GHz), Speicher 24GB

NicolasLux
Beiträge: 4
Registriert: Dienstag 17. März 2020, 12:47

Re: Reflecta RPS 10M - Issue ("Staircase Effect"?)

Beitrag von NicolasLux »

Hi Josef!

First of all, many thanks for your quick reply and help!

I just sent an e-mail to Reflecta Contact and will keep you updated based on their answer.

In the meantime, I will perform scans with Cyberview the way you suggest it, even if I am not really convince it would show the same issue following the poor amount of details this software provides compared to Silverfast (but maybe I am wrong! ;) )
I will also keep you posted!

Many thanks again!

Martinus
Beiträge: 31
Registriert: Dienstag 26. März 2019, 11:37

Re: Reflecta RPS 10M - Issue ("Staircase Effect"?)

Beitrag von Martinus »

The mesh-like pattern looks like an interference pattern resulting from the successive application auf two slightly different digital resolutions. It is clearly a software effect, not a hardware effect.

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Jossie
Beiträge: 1388
Registriert: Sonntag 10. Februar 2013, 19:40
Wohnort: im Kraichgau

Re: Reflecta RPS 10M - Issue ("Staircase Effect"?)

Beitrag von Jossie »

Martinus hat geschrieben:
Mittwoch 18. März 2020, 08:04
successive application auf two slightly different digital resolutions
How could such a Moire-effect be produced by software in both directions in structureless areas?
Martinus hat geschrieben:
Mittwoch 18. März 2020, 08:04
It is clearly a software effect
Then it has to occur in all similar applications of SF.

Hermann-Josef
DigitDia6000 (CyberView, SilverFast Archive Suite 8) / CanoScan9950F (ScanGear, VueScan Pro), Eizo CS240, Spider4Elite unter Win10 (64bit), i7 (3.5GHz), Speicher 24GB

Martinus
Beiträge: 31
Registriert: Dienstag 26. März 2019, 11:37

Re: Reflecta RPS 10M - Issue ("Staircase Effect"?)

Beitrag von Martinus »

Jossie hat geschrieben:
Mittwoch 18. März 2020, 09:33

How could such a Moire-effect be produced by software in both directions in structureless areas?
There are at least two possibilities: 1. The scanned image had a grid, or 2., it is the result of the successive use of two different applications, namely Silverfast and Lightroom. Intuitively, I would choose option 1.

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Jossie
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Registriert: Sonntag 10. Februar 2013, 19:40
Wohnort: im Kraichgau

Re: Reflecta RPS 10M - Issue ("Staircase Effect"?)

Beitrag von Jossie »

It should be easy to get an answer to this: the original scans (no saturation in the bright areas e.g. of the sky) with SF and CyberView, as suggested above.

@Nicolas: Did you change the image size in Lightroom by binning?

Hermann-Josef
DigitDia6000 (CyberView, SilverFast Archive Suite 8) / CanoScan9950F (ScanGear, VueScan Pro), Eizo CS240, Spider4Elite unter Win10 (64bit), i7 (3.5GHz), Speicher 24GB

NicolasLux
Beiträge: 4
Registriert: Dienstag 17. März 2020, 12:47

Re: Reflecta RPS 10M - Issue ("Staircase Effect"?)

Beitrag von NicolasLux »

Hi everyone!

Thanks again for your help!
@Nicolas: Did you change the image size in Lightroom by binning?
Sorry, I do not understand what you mean by "binning".
But I did not change the image size in LR (except if it is done automatically during the export).
I would contact reflecta (service@reflecta.de) and send them these examples.
Please find below their answer. It seems this is due to a software issue.

I did not perform any new check with Cyber View.
But I scanned again the pictures and mainly reworked the contrast in Silverfast with the curve.
I finalized the image in LR / PS and I did not face this issue again.

I also tried to scan the images without all the Silverfast options and then reworked the pictures in LR / PS.
And this mesh-like pattern did not appear.

I have no idea what was wrond during my first attempt or which is the possible option / combination of options that would mess the scans up.


At least, I know my scanner is not detective and I found a way to avoid this issue.
I will rework most of my images in Silverfast before any exportation.

Thanks again for your help!
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Jossie
Beiträge: 1388
Registriert: Sonntag 10. Februar 2013, 19:40
Wohnort: im Kraichgau

Re: Reflecta RPS 10M - Issue ("Staircase Effect"?)

Beitrag von Jossie »

Nicolas,

sounds like the problem has vanished? In your first post you mentioned "that my development on Lightroom enhance the issue" so I had concluded that the mesh was already present in the original SF-scan?

In general, in case of problems one should not mix various software packages (SilverFast, Lightroom ...) because this makes any diagnosis quite hard.

Best wishes

Hermann-Josef
DigitDia6000 (CyberView, SilverFast Archive Suite 8) / CanoScan9950F (ScanGear, VueScan Pro), Eizo CS240, Spider4Elite unter Win10 (64bit), i7 (3.5GHz), Speicher 24GB

NicolasLux
Beiträge: 4
Registriert: Dienstag 17. März 2020, 12:47

Re: Reflecta RPS 10M - Issue ("Staircase Effect"?)

Beitrag von NicolasLux »

Hi Josef,
sounds like the problem has vanished?
I would say for now that I managed to scan and develop the pictures in a different way that do not raise the issue encountered. ;)
In your first post you mentioned "that my development on Lightroom enhance the issue" so I had concluded that the mesh was already present in the original SF-scan?
It was not really visible but yes, I would also say it was present on the original scan.

In general, in case of problems one should not mix various software packages (SilverFast, Lightroom ...) because this makes any diagnosis quite hard.
Yes, you are right! But in my original post, I only detailed the full process I performed.

Thanks again and I will keep you inform if I face this issue in the near future!

Ken50x
Beiträge: 1
Registriert: Mittwoch 31. Juli 2019, 14:20

Re: Reflecta RPS 10M - Issue ("Staircase Effect"?)

Beitrag von Ken50x »

Hello,
May I ask you what version of Silverfast you use? 8.8.Or-16 or the latest Or-18?
I have a Reflecta MF 5000 and with my latest update of Silverfast I get now banding problems.
I have downgraded to the Or-16 version.
I am executing now the tips I got from Scandig.

Kenneth
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